23 thoughts on “25. Libya Unit Two: A few Questions.

  1. When Americans left Afghanistan after defeating the Soviet Union and proclaiming the End of History and themselves as the sole Super Power. soon they began to taste bitter fruits. The Talibam emerged as a monster.. First came the attack n World towers and increase in terrorism. Next acting as the self proclaimed guardians of democracy and freedom, they SAVED Kuwait , they invaded Iraq and won universal condemnation. Next they said that they would root out terror and invaded Afghanistan. Pakistan has begun to play tricks and the USA does not know what to do. What next?

    1. It was earlier believed by many that US by positioning its troops in Afganistan, is trying to strengthen its military position in the South Asian region to counter the increasingly warm relations among the South Asian countries. Now that President Obama and other nations have announced the withdrawal of troops, the deserted nation fears being a battleground for regional rivals, and thus its national security. President Karzai has tied knots with Pakistan as well as India for his troops to be trained.

      Pakistan fears Indian presence in Afganistan and thus is trying hard to upsurge its influence. It is possible that having foreseen such a condition, Pakistan planned to grant India MFN status; a sophistry to melt India and a sham face to the world.

      Barack Obama made it clear that if India aspires for the U.N. seat, involvement in international security matters is necessary. India is taking an initiative to train the troops in Afganistan, but India should make sure not get trapped into the “post 2014 trap” of having sent our army to Afganistan.

      1. I agree with you that we must not get into the “trap” post 2014. But, in the present world, it is not ideology but nuclear weapons that will save a country. Non-nuclear powers will be “SAVED”(read Saddam-ised) by Uncle Sam in the name of exporting democracy.

        40,000 people were killed in Libya to `safeguard’ human rights! It is all about maintaining a regional hegemony. Do you think that after Libya, US will go to Iran next? or Syria? What could Russia, Brazil, Turkey, Saudi Arabia be thinking? What should be India’s stand…shall we be like the India of NAM days again? Can we afford to be so?

        Have the Americans learnt their lesson after Vietnam, Taliban, Iraq, Libya? Even if they did would the Military Industrial Complex shut shop? Looking from this perspective, what’s new? Only the ideology is new: first they said the world must be saved from Communism, now they say human rights must be protected.

        1. I DISAGREE with your view that only nuclear power can save a nation, but a diplomatic and suave action plan might. Be friendly with as many nations as possible, without jeopardizing your dignity and sovereignty; live with peace and harmony; progress economically, technologically and socially; and promote fraternity for a sustainable development.
          It is believed that the next world war if any would be nuclear, and all the involved states whether on the NPT list or not will use their nuclear power. The only states which would possibly survive would be those who choose to join the NAM kind of group.

          Yes, I agree that MIC will not stop. USA does intervene in the matters of various nations, what would have grandpa do when children misbehave? Oh yes, here grandpa also looks for personal benefits. And the organizations, which USA should be answerable to, are run by it.

          I may sound fictitious if I say to live on the path of peace and harmony, progress in every scintilla that we can, one day grow greater than the greatest; But can only killing each other solve all matters?

          1. Why is N.Korea not Saddamised yet? Pakistan? Why did we go nuclear in 1974 even as we spoke highly of Non-Alignment, disarmament and peace?

            In my view, nuclear power is also a part of diplomacy. The 1974 experiment has landed us where we are today: nuclear diplomacy-Indo-US nuclear deal, a plethora of strategic nuclear partnerships.

            I am not saying-“Use the weapon because you have it;”. All I intend to convey is this,that having the weapon as a deterrence saves you from “saddamisation”.

            Don’t you think Gaddafi would have survived had he NOT surrendered nukes? What is it that prevents US from confronting Kayani? What did Kayani mean when he said “Pakistan is no Libya!”?

          2. And yes! The US is ‘grandpa’ today because of the Manhattan project. Nukes are like insurance. You keep paying premiums, for the sake of life-long cover.

      2. Good show. Keep it up. The debate between Apooorva and Aneesh is good. All out talk of Hind Chini Bhai Bhai led to what? Trust in God but keep your gunpowder dry. If China is peace loving, why has it developed the Pham Dong missile with a range of 13,500 KMs. But I also agree that Pakistan’s statement that Pakistan is no Libya is pure bluff. China is not going to pour money into Pakistan and keep it afloat as the USA is doing . Let the USA stop all aid and all hell will be let loose. The way Pakistan is moving its nukes in lorries shows that if it comes to the clinch, Israel and the US will let Pakistan have it. The moment this happens, Sind and Baluchistan will beak away. We should do to Pakistan what Smt. Indira Gandhi did to East Pakistan. Pakistan knows that it will be the end of the world if it tries to use its nukes. I think that Apoorva is too idealistic. I can imagine what Daddhafi would have done had he a nuke. He would have used it . But Pakistan is not Libya,Yes! It has a deep dependency on the US and deep fears of China a la Sinkiang. Gadhhafi did not have any such fears or needs.

    2. According to me USA’s next target is PoK through Pakistan to control China and Pakistan. USA might create Israel like state in PoK region by dividing Muslim Shia’s and sunnie’s.

      Thank you.

  2. And recently they claimed a change in strategy. Clinton claims it as Smart Power. Not sending directly the American forces into Libya but aiding a rag tag army of rebels, persuading the NATO to bomb heavily Libyan towns and villages, sending drones, using Facebook and Twitter to mobilzee people as during the Arab spring but leaving mountains of shoulder missiles and countless AK 47s and so on. What do you think will happen in Libya now? How long will the rag tab rebels go on shooting AK 47s in the air? The Tiger does not stop after tasting human blood. What next?

    1. Libyans have brought down the long run erratic rule of Muammar el-Quaddafi, but yes the rebel leaders have parried the view of surrendering their weapons. They now wish to preserve their autonomy and influence political decisions as guardians of revolution. The members of National Council in that case will have responsibility but no power. None shall raise a voice and the nation would run on the ideology of those with Guns.
      What can one assume, another Taliban is in incarnation!

    2. Possibilities:
      1) Al-Qaeda becomes active in W.Asia, N.Africa region.
      2)A proxy/cold war between Iran and S.Arabia
      3)Neo-colonisation of Libya’s oil resource by France, UK, China(?)

    3. According to me, after fallout of Gaddhafi, Libyan rebellions go for forming government and restructuring Laws to suit libyan people. Libyan people wants unrestricted laws and more freedom and right to speak, gather, etc

      After this change rebels has to disarm them self, but as a legacy of Libya some rebellion groups keep functioning even after forming government.

      Thank you

    1. Who said Osama has failed? He did what he meant to do – trigger the fire, and now it is the oil of Arab which fumes all over. America on the other hand in order to prove its hegemony, pokes its nose into every nation’s affair. First invading Afghanistan and Iraq in name of ending support for terrorism, and free the people of these nations. Then, supporting Libyan rebels by supplying weapons, and thus creates situations in Libya similar to Afghanistan… possibility to raise a new Taliban… Why not intervene now and convince the militia who have not agreed to give up their weapons? Find a way to resolve their political issues, provide for rehabilitation of those who lost everything in the war?

    1. The middle class in India is not really coherent; and it is only the urbane that are active in social networks.

      Hmmm…Perhaps. The rural population is the main support base of almost all political parties…that is so much emphasis on padayatra, rath yatra et al even in the information age.

      Do you think Anna Hazare movement kindled spirits only in Urban india?

      1. India’s middle class has not yet evolved into a conscious political entity that can decide the fate of political leaders, though, it must be admitted that it is evolving. Take the simple factor of voting. It is the rural poor who vote than the preachy middle class who sit at home and crib rather than go vote. The psyche of the middle class in the country is to criticize rather than be the catalyst of change. Their ambitions and relationship with government revolves around a complicated relationship of economics,infrastructure and security. The rural poor are either looking for emancipation or continuance of their traditional lifestyle(This depends on the caste factor)as promised by their political leaders. though there is significant rise in India’s Urban population. it does not mean a political voice of the middle class. The rural poor still calls the shots. The middle class will become a voice to be reckoned with maybe in matter of 20 years at the earliest

        1. Reply to both Apoorva and Varghese. You cannot deny the tremendous upsurge that took place during Anna Hazare’s fast. The Middle Classes have been suffering mainly because of unemployment. I have a gut feeling that something like an Arab Spring is in the air. Having come from the freedom movement, i know student power. It releases a tremendous energy and I have hope in it..T the poor in the villages are being bought over through sham schemes which give them probably two means and for the males arrack. The poor may go to vote not because they are politically conscious but because of various other factors. On the other hand the RTI seems to have released the energy of the middle class and I am sure that if Government (which is grudgingly and half heartedly yielding) does not meet the demands of the people, it will receive a severe drubbing at the polls. And I am glad that the middle classes are not giving an excuse to government to resort to the police too much.

      2. So what? Thirty percent of India lives in the cities. And when the villagers begin to use the mobile and the RTI, where will the government stand. Anna has hit the nall the head. See the way the UPA II government is moving lie a headless chicken.

        1. Sir, I appreciate the optimism and hope in your response. True, the youth of today are more empowered compared to the people, say 20-30 years ago. Proliferation of technology, internet, social networks can make a huge difference.

          I feel happy when I see people of my age in TV debates, participating in RTI workshops etc. I am tempted to quote Wordsworth, “Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, But to be young was very heaven!”

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